*Content warning* - in this episode, we are talking about pregnancy, as well as fertility challenges and experiences in the NICU. So if you’re not in the headspace for that right now then please take care of yourself and do whatever you need to to look after yourself.
Today I'm talking to the incredible Alex Light, a body acceptance advocate and author of You Are Not a Before Picture. In this conversation we're talking about all the really insidious and toxic messaging we get around postpartum bodies.
I know this can be a tricky conversation if you've ever experienced infertility or pregnancy or baby loss and I just wanted to direct you to two episodes that we've done previously where we discuss embodiment when our bodies have really let us down. So check out episode 23 with Colleen Reichman and also episode 14 with Jennie Agg.
In this episode we discuss:
👉 Snapback culture and the horrendous ways it shows up for birthing people
👉 How our bodies can change during and after pregnancy and the shame often associated with this
👉 The anti-fatness of '9 months in, 9 months out' pictures
👉 Ways to help protect your embodiment in the postpartum period
You can follow Alex on Instagram here.
Episode Transcript
Laura: Alex, can you start by telling people a little bit about you and what you do?
Alex: Yes, so, I guess the like, catch-all term for what I do is like, influencer. But, it's predominantly, what I do is predominantly centred around body image, which has come from years of personal experience of my own. I had an eating disorder for really, for most of most of my life, actually, until my late twenties.
And I managed to get help. I was lucky enough to have help and sustained help for my eating disorder. And I recovered. Well, I'm in recovery. I was in recovery. And as I was starting to recover, I, was learning about diet culture and about this world we live in that makes us, you know, not only values but rewards thinness and, and by virtue of that makes us just desperate to be thin at any and all costs.
And I was so shocked by this just because I'd never had my eyes open to it before. Why would I, you know, we, we all have kind of, I feel like until recently, we've all been living in a diet culture without questioning it or challenging it, or just really understanding that we're living in one. And as I stopped, my eyes started to open to this and I was like, God, I need to….I want to talk about this.
Cause I was doing, I was like an influencer before that, I was doing fashion.
Laura: Just like a traditional influencer as opposed to body image influencer? Okay.
Alex: Yeah, I was doing fashion and beauty, which is great. I also love following people who do fashion and beauty as well. And I still do that, but it felt like for me, something wasn't, to use a very overused word, authentic, you know, because I was posting a lot of pictures that were edited, like super, super edited.
I was like, thinning my body and making me look like a completely different person. And it was just kind of, it started to become at odds with what I was experiencing in my own personal life. And so I remember that, that first post that I did when I talked about what I was going through and what I had been through for so much of my life with, with weight and with eating and all of those struggles, and that was like the turning point really for me.
And then I was like, the response kind of galvanised me into like further action and from there I've just, I've just taken a deep dive into body image on, on my account and I've written a book about it as well.
Laura: Say the name of the book.
Alex: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's called You Are Not a Before Picture.
Inspired, I guess, by the fact that I felt like a before picture for forever. Like always, like since from the moment, I mean probably like from the moment I became aware of my body existing in the world, I think that was the moment that I, then I felt like a before picture because I was, I was always big and you know, not like that much bigger, but I was always bigger than my peers and I became painfully aware of it at a really young age.
And then that was that. So I was like, no, we are not, I'm not before picture. We are not a before picture. And it's really sad that we, we live our lives like this, thinking this and thinking that we can't live a fulfilling, meaningful life until we look like the after picture.
Laura: Yeah. A hundred percent. And just as you were talking there and you mentioned that, you know, you were aware of your body, and I guess it wasn't just an awareness of your body, but it was this sense that there was something wrong with your body from a really young age, and it reminded me…I was, I overheard a parent, like, say, to another parent, their two year old was “clinically ob*se” and just had, like, such a look of disgust on their face.
And this was a two year old? A two year old, and we're talking about kids’ bodies in that way, so. And then, you know, we're, like, a bit confused about why we have an eating disorder epidemic.
Alex: If it induces that much, like that visceral reaction in people. It's interesting with babies and kids because I wonder at what point it switches from the fatness on them being super cute to suddenly it's wrong.
Laura: I'm not sure that it's even as simple as that. I think about this quite a lot. I think that there's a right level of fat that a baby should be. If you've got a baby that's too skinny, like if they're born on the second centile, and I'm saying, you know, “too skinny”, I don't believe that they're too skinny, but you know, this is what health professionals are told.
We were told that we, or would say to them, we're told to fatten them up. But as soon as they cross the 50th centile, it's like, well, don't let them get too big. And so there is this kind of like double standard that we have, I think, but yes. In, I think, I think in general, baby, like baby fat is way more acceptable to people.
And then there becomes a point where they're like, no, you need to like, do something.
Alex: Now it's wrong. Before it was cute, but now it's wrong. It's crazy, isn't it? Cause I put up a picture of just, I was in the, the back of my, my, my little boy and he's got really, you know, he's, he's chunky and he's got these chunky thighs and so many people are like, oh my God, those gorgeous chunky thighs. They're so cute.
And I was like, wow, if it was an adult or even if it was just an older kid, it wouldn't be cute, you know, it wouldn't be deemed cute.
Laura: They'd be marching them to slimming world.
Alex: Yeah, I don't know. it's interesting.
Laura: It's, it's so upsetting, but I think this concept that, you know, of the, of being the, the before picture. ties in nicely to what I wanted to talk to you about today, which is snapback culture, right?
This immense pressure on women and people who've had babies to ‘get their bodies back’ after having a baby. Do you think maybe we could just start by like…not that there's like a, a definition of snapback culture, but when I say snapback culture, what comes to mind for you?
Alex: I think for me, it's the idea that we, and I guess this is kind of, this is like a sinister way of looking at it, but it's the idea that we have to look like we were never pregnant in the first place and nothing, nothing had ever happened to our bodies, that we've had a baby, we've been through the pregnancy, had a baby, and then it has to go back to how it was before.
Laura: I don't think that's a sinister, like, definition. I think that is like on point, right? Like erasing any kind of sign that your body has grown another human.
Alex: Exactly. And even though it's like, it's, I mean, for me, it's the biggest thing that my body has ever been through by far, by like anything, nothing ever, ever comes close.
It's like the hugest physical change. And within months, we're supposed to look like nothing ever happened. We're supposed to have ‘snapped back’ to the body and like ‘got our body back’, which I think is, is such a funny term because your body never went anywhere. Obviously, like, it's just…
Laura: It hasn't gone away for nine months. Like, like you were some like Victorian that was banished to the countryside until you had your child.
Alex: And you know, it's, it's funny because I – and I know we're going to get onto this, but it's funny because I have done so much work on body image that I feel like I'm almost kind of immune, you know, in my head, I'm like, I'm kind of immune from like struggles with it.
Like when I gain weight, I feel okay about it. Like it's, I, I, I deal with it. I have my like toolbox, my coping mechanisms that are, like, very tried and tested through years of trying and testing and I fall back on them very quickly, very easily. And I, I feel like I've really, you know, I feel like I've, like, got that down and I'm like, great.
I've, I've tackled my body image and then this, this postpartum, this pregnancy postpartum body image was like a whole different ball game. Hit me like a tonne of bricks. It was wild. And I felt shame around my body, which is something that I haven't felt in a really, really long time.
That's because of the, you know, because there isn't enough and there hasn't been historically for sure, there hasn't been enough discourse around: your body changes and it will change for forever. Like it will never, at least as the case for me, it will never go back to how it was or how it looked before ever.
And like, that's okay. And it's okay for your body to change, it's okay for your body to change drastically, never mind minimally, like, and everything in between, like those things are all okay. And there's just, there's not much of an emphasis on that because there's such an emphasis on like, how do we get your body back?
Laura: Yeah. Well, and I think that there's, you know, at other transitions in our lives, you know, and, and the two that stand out for me in terms of, cis women are: going through puberty. Well, I mean, everyone goes through puberty, most people go through puberty, right? But that is a, it's a huge transition and it's an irreversible transition.
And menopause is another irreversible transition, right? So those two, and there is a huge cultural conversation about menopause, rightly so, and perimenopause that's happening, although Davina McCall is involved, so I'm skeptical.
But also, there's like, I think we all understand that like, there's an irreversible process that happens during puberty. But we treat pregnancy, because it's this like, temporary thing, we treat it as though we're gonna go, like, that that's not an irreversible process. Like, you are postpartum forever for the rest of your life, right?
Like I'm four years postpartum and I'm still dealing with complications from my pregnancy. And there's just, there's no, like, there's no space for that conversation because it is all just kind of distilled down to, well, your body's changed, how are we going to get it back? back, which just completely, like, glosses over the fact that you, you can't. Like, it's impossible.
You are a different, you have a different body.
Alex: Right. And also talking about, you know, you talking about your complications, it also glosses over the fact that like the focus should be on recovery and restrengthening your body after this crazy physical experience, yet the focus is like, how does it look, you know, and people are praised for… people are praised just blindly for losing weight.
I mean, losing weight anyway, but like particularly after giving birth, you know, it's, it's like, oh my God, this is amazing. It kind of, it's almost to a point where it's like it doesn't matter what you're actually going through behind the scenes, it doesn't really matter. Like if your body is not functioning the way that you would like it to or the way that it did before, it doesn't really matter.
The good thing is it looks like it did before, and that's just, it's just the wrong priority completely. It's just, it's completely misguided.
Laura: Well, and, and as I think you're kind of suggesting here as well, it glosses over deeper things that could be going on for a person, and I think that there is often times I think when we, in the postpartum period and probably beyond that, when we say, oh, I don't feel good about my body. I don't feel good about the way it looks.
What we're actually saying is…like that's the sort of physical manifestation almost of like all of this internal stuff that's going on, like the grief, the loss of identity, the physical, you know, changes in it, aside from weight and shape, you know, like, if your pelvic floor is fucked up, if you've got C-section scar, if your pelvis is fucked, if, like, there are all of these, your hair is falling out, like, there's all of these changes, maybe stuff's going on with your boobs, like, there's all of this other stuff and I, I…
There's a lot of grief wrapped around that as well, and I feel like it just is so easy to tie that into a little bow of like, bad body image, and then, oh, here's a product or a workout or a diet that you can go on that will fix that for you.
Am I wrong?
Alex: You are not wrong. That's exactly it. And there are…honestly, I'm targeted daily. My algorithm is 100 percent sure that I just gave birth. So it's like, I am constantly targeted by these things.
Laura: I mean, you kind of did, Alex, like your baby's only six months old!
Alex: So it's, it's like, honestly, and, and, but I was even shocked while I was pregnant, I was getting ads on Facebook of like a couple of women who were doing like, pregnancy bootcamp and it's with the aim of not putting on too much weight while you're pregnant, which definitely is like even more, way more sinister, you know, because that's like a whole different, a whole different ballgame.
But yeah, I'm, I've targeted constantly because you're right. It's easy. It's an, it's a fantastically easy win for the diet industry, isn't it? Like there is a very, there's very much a need here for desperate people who feel desperate in their body, desperate physically. There is a need, we can sell something here and they do. It's a huge industry.
Laura: The obvious thing is those kind of targeted ads on Facebook for you know, like pre and postnatal bootcamp type things. ‘Get your body back.’ Exercises and workouts and stuff. Where else do you see it creep in and maybe more subtle ways?
Alex: Ah, I mean…
Laura: Or maybe overt ways as well.
Alex: Yeah. I mean, well, in overt ways it's, it's all over Instagram and because my algorithm knows that, you know, I've got a young baby as well, the, my explore page is full of, yeah, this was me nine months pregnant. This was me one week postpartum. This is me nine months postpartum. And it's like, if I can get my body back, so can you.
And. It's like, I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that those do still, like, trigger me a little bit as well. Cause I'm like, oh shit, like I'm nowhere near that. And also that's not what my priority is. And seeing this is making me think, God, should this be my priority? And you know, it's that snap, that split second of like…
Actually what I noticed as well was that…so towards the end of my pregnancy, I mean. I feel like it was, the writing was on the wall that I had pre-eclampsia because it was very, very, very swollen and my blood pressure was always high, but I was really swollen.
I mean, I had to get my rings like cut off at, I had to go to the jewellers to get them all, like, properly cut off. Yeah. I tried everything. The string trick, nothing worked. So I had to get them cut off, nothing. I couldn't wear, I couldn't, couldn't wear anything. I couldn't wear socks because it would just hurt too much and just dig in.
And it was, I was really, really swollen and I had like. Like I, it was, it was a lot and then it turns out towards the end of my pregnancy that yes, I did have pre-eclampsia and so I'd put on a lot, a lot, a lot of water weight and fluid. And in the, even in the week, like the week, two weeks after I gave birth, I lost it all.
I was constantly, like, night sweating, going to the toilet constantly. And…
Laura: Oh my God, the night sweats!
Alex: Horrendous.
Laura: I forgot about those!
Alex: And I, it was like, it was dramatic. Like the difference in how I looked from giving birth, obviously the bump as well, but like the fluid, like I just looked like a completely different person.
And everyone was like, oh my God, you've lost so much weight. Like, and everyone was like, you look back to what you did before. I probably was at a similar weight, you know, to, to where I was before getting pregnant. And I was just stunned by how many people were telling me this and telling me so, and excitedly telling me so, and not asking like, how's your C-section scar?
How's that doing? Cause it was, I had two infections and I mean, it, it was, I had, it was good. Like I was, I had, I was lucky. I had a good, like a, a good birth and apart from the two infections, like everything went well, but still like no one was asking me about that or like, how are you feeling?
And it was just like, oh my God, you look so good. And it didn't stay that way either because I then I put on weight postpartum, which is another thing.
Laura: I mean, I've certainly experienced those really, like, weird body related comments. that just seem so fucking far removed from reality of like, the situation.
So for, for me, when Avery was born, he was in the NICU for two weeks.
Alex: That must have been horrible.
Laura: And then we got him out and, and someone, like…we had to meet people in the park because it was COVID. But like, someone was like, oh, are you, are you breastfeeding? Oh, great, because, you know, that means that you can eat cake every day and still lose weight.
And I was like, my child has just come out of the hospital. They almost died. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Alex: That's horrendous.
Laura: Yeah. Why is that, why is that what you're thinking about? And I had to be like, like, I don't care. And I, and just like try and shut it down. And this is someone who knows what I do and like, knows my work. I'm like, what the fuck?
Yeah. So I, I feel like I was kind of, in some ways, I mean, it was horrific in a lot of ways, but in some ways I was, I was protected because I wasn't in like tons of like mum and baby groups and like, you know, the postnatal exercise groups and all of those kinds of things where that messaging is so deeply pervasive and it's just normalised and nobody is being like, Hey, um, maybe we shouldn't talk about this, especially, I mean, the babies don't really get it, but like if we're talking about it now so openly, what about when they're four or five, six, seven and you know, at the age where they will be vulnerable to developing an eating disorder.
Alex: If we, if we never shut it down, it'll never be shut down. So we have to do it, you know, like the sooner the better.
Laura: Exactly. We need to set that precedent.
Coming back to your experience and you know, you mentioned there that there was this initial weight loss, which was actually, you know, all the water weight that you, you'd lost as a result of, well, giving birth.
And then, you've written about how you ended up putting some weight on in the postpartum period. And it sounds like that really, it brought up those old insecurities about your body. Do you want to get into that a little bit more?
Alex: Yeah, totally. So it was a real shock to me. So when I, when I lost weight initially and everyone was telling me how good I looked and, and you've lost so much weight and you're back to your pre-baby weight. Wow.
I just didn't care. I didn't care. Uh, you know. My experience was less traumatic than, than yours for sure. But like, it just, it just wasn't a priority. I just didn't care. I didn't have capacity to care and…
Laura: I mean, yeah. You're exhausted. You're physically recovering, right? Like it's, you're adjusting to having this new creature in your life.
Alex: Yeah. Right. I mean, this is, this is the thing. It's like, I also didn't care about, I didn't look at my body in the mirror, not because I didn't, I didn't want to or because I was scared of what I would see. I just didn't have the capacity to care about it. So I, it, it didn't come into my mind for the first three months, really. It just, it just didn't feature.
I was so completely overwhelmed with this, this new life that it just didn't pop into my mind. And then suddenly after three months, I feel like I came out of this, I came out of like the, well, I guess the fourth trimester, right? Is that right? Yeah. Out of the fourth trimester, out of the newborn fog and haze.
And I was like, and I started to, I’d just been living in baggy jumpers and leggings. It was winter and I was just fine with that. It was fine. It was cool. And then I was like, Oh, I want to start feeling a bit better about myself and like wearing nicer things, you know, wearing things that I used to wear that make me feel like nice and like, just get dressed up a bit, you know, and do my hair nice and like do some makeup.
Like I've always loved, like, I love doing my makeup, you know, I was like, I want to get, I want to get like back into that stuff. And so I was like trying stuff on and realising that, whoa, my body is completely, completely different now. And actually I am not fitting into anything that I used to fit into by a long stretch, by a long stretch.
And that had all come from the three months postpartum. You know, it came about for me because food has been the most complicated relationship I've ever had in my life with anything. And it's always been my source of comfort and it's always been my safe space, food and eating, you know, and I've worked really hard on not, not trying to get rid of that because I don't think it's, it's, yeah, anyway, it's, it's just, sorry, we can take that bit out.
Laura: It's a different podcast, but I will, I will link to some stuff about emotional eating that I think talks to what I think you're speaking to, which is this idea of like not pathologising or vilifying comfort eating and at the same time. Thinking about, okay, can we develop other tools to support us?
Alex: Exactly, right.
Laura: Did I get it?
Alex: That's exactly what I meant.
Laura: It's almost like this is my job.
Alex: So there was that, I was turning to food because I needed comfort because I was in this like crazy new unfamiliar territory, being responsible for this, this tiny little thing, having my life completely revolve around him and being full of like, I think for the first month, I really experienced grief that he wasn't like in my belly anymore.
I really felt that, you know, again, I think it's something I've, I've never like really spoken to anyone about or really like read anything about online, but I really experienced that, like every time I showered, I felt like, Oh my God.
Laura: Oh my God. I'm going to cry. Alex. Cause I know exactly what you mean.
Alex: Ah, don't you'll set me off.
Laura: Just not having them. It is. It's a huge, it's a huge, huge thing. And I don't think people like. If, if you've carried a baby, you will, you will know exactly this feeling, I'm sure.
Alex: Oh no, I’m crying! But yeah, it feels, it's like, it feels like grief. I felt like bereft when I was, I just, it just, it was, I don't know, it's just, I just felt so sad and especially that first month. That combined with like the, you know, the postpartum blues and just food was my real, probably my only source of comfort. And I massively turned to it.
And I went back to my old, I went back to actually a lot of binging habits as well. Like, you know, also habits that I've really worked, you know, I really worked, I've worked hard on my binge eating over the, over the past six, seven years. Combine them with, like, the tiredness. Like you need energy. Like food was the only thing that was giving me a sense of like, okay, I can do the day now, like I can, I can wake up and do this.
Like I, once I have this energy inside me, like sugar, all I wanted was sugar. Like I was desperate. Like I lived on Gail's almond croissants. They’re the absolute tits, They’re the best. And all of it combined meant that I put on weight and I just hadn't realised because I wasn't focused, I wasn't taking any notice of my body until I got to that point where I was like, I'm going to, oh, I'm starting to like, you know, like wanting to wear new clothes, you know, and I was just getting back to that and I was like, oh my god, it looks completely different.
Laura: Well, and isn't it so interesting? To think about, like, it was, it was the putting on old clothes that almost was the, the trigger for that. Like, I have this conversation with clients a lot where, where they tell me a similar thing where they're like, well, you know, and then I put this on and I felt bad about your body and I'll sort of ask them, well, you…or kind of reflect that, well, you didn't feel bad about your body five minutes before that. And your body hasn't actually changed. So maybe it's not you that is the problem, maybe it's the clothes, right?
And so I think it's just helpful to, like, keep that perspective that, again, you know, like, it's not you, it's not your body that's the problem, your body was never the problem. But, because of the sort of, the toxic diet culture, snapback culture messaging, there was probably part of your brain that was like, well, I should fit into those clothes.
And these people over here had given me these compliments. Right. And talked about my body without my permission. And then, like, so when you put the clothes on, there's like, of course, there's this, you know, huge clusterfuck happening all at once.
Alex: Right. Cause it's like, and that's, that's…there, that's my concrete proof that I have a) put on weight and B) now need a bigger size, two things that are hugely vilified by society and by the world we live in. You know, it's like we are, it's drummed into us: it's bad to gain weight. So bad to gain weight. And like the smaller you are, the smaller size you are, the better.
So those two things kind of…yeah, they, they hit you. It does, it hits you and it takes a while to break that down as well and like bring those coping tools back in and like, you know, remind yourself that like you're okay and you're still, that there's nothing wrong with your body. Right.
But then what…I feel like there was an added layer for me then of like the shame that crept in because I was like, oh, but people aren't supposed to put on weight postpartum, they’re supposed to put on weight during pregnancy. Like that's, we know that that's, that's normalised. That's like accepted. We know that. But after pregnancy, like I've never heard anyone talk about that.
I've never heard any, I've literally never heard anyone talk about putting on weight after pregnancy because there's this like preoccupation with as soon as the baby's out, you've got to drop, you've got to drop that weight and drop those pregnancy pounds, but it's never putting on weight after. And if you think about it, it's often inevitable that we put on weight after pregnancy.
When you consider all those things that I mentioned, tiredness, like grieving your old life, turning to food as a source of comfort and, you know, just a lack of routine.
Laura: But not having time. Yeah. Not being like, like being too exhausted or not having the time right to, to like do, you know, whatever your usual exercise might have been.
I definitely put on weight in the postpartum period. Much more so, like, obviously I put on a lot of weight when I was pregnant, but I feel my body probably went back to somewhere around where it was after giving birth, but then, you know, the stress of having a baby in the NICU and then just like, also, like, I couldn’t fucking go anywhere because it was the pandemic.
Alex: I was gonna say, you had yours in lockdown, right? That's crazy, that's so hard.
Laura: Yeah, so like, all of these usual ways of, you know, of like moving my body, like it just, and I was starving because I was breastfeeding as well. And just, yeah. So hungry. So I almost don't want to make excuses like…or I'm conscious that it sounds like excuses almost.
It's not an excuse. It's just, you know, bodies change for a whole variety of, of different factors and variables. But I think you're right in that it's almost excusable to gain weight while you're pregnant. Right? You're allowed that. You're allowed that. As long as you get your body back, you're allowed it.
But how fucking dare you put on weight after having had a baby? What's your excuse?
Do you remember that post? God, it must have been like, it must be like 10 years ago now, I want to say, maybe even more. And there is this like, fitness mom, there's like a picture of her very, very like, you know, she's, she's kind of ripped for a woman and um, she's surrounded by like five or six kids, including a baby.
And the question is just like, what's your excuse?
Alex: Oooh, okay.
Laura: Ugh, that's like seared into my brain.
Alex: Oh, that's horrible.
Laura: Like, what the fuck?
Alex: That's horrible. So horrible. Oh, that's brutal. Oh my God. That's like the, that is literally the last thing, especially for someone who's struggling. Like I was lucky that I didn't get postnatal depression, but like for someone who's even struggling with that.
And like food exercise or like diet and exercise is like the furthest thing from their mind. It's just like pure survival. It just, that's cruel. Things like that are just so cruel.
But just jumping back quickly, something about pregnancy that I found really interesting was that I was worried about pregnancy and what that would do to my body image because just because I've had such a, like a rocky history with my body and with eating disorders, I was like, is it going to trigger, is it going to trigger me?
You know, I feel like I've done enough work, but what if it triggers me and you know, how am I going to handle the pregnancy weight gain? And interestingly…I have never felt more comfortable in my own body. And, but it's not really for the best reasons, I have to say, because actually what I'm going to say…it's, it's about external validation as well, because it was the only time in my life that people have praised me for getting bigger because I've been up and down with weight my entire life.
And whenever I would lose weight, it would be, you know, praise would be heaped on me and, and like, what's, what, what was your secret? How did you do it? You look so good. Oh my God, you look amazing. And then whenever I put on weight, it would just be silence. Or maybe from a select few, it would, I would be told like, you've put on weight, what do you want to do about it?
Laura: A judgement.
Alex: It'd be a judgment. Exactly. And then pregnancy was the only time in my life where I've put on weight and people have been like, Oh my God, look at your belly. Like how cute is that? Look. And I was like, Oh, it feels like my body is being praised for a way that's not thinness. And that was lovely. That felt so nice to me.
And that's probably a wrong…that's probably, you know, wrong because we shouldn't be relying on external validation. Like, you know, the, the respect and love for our body should come from, you know, from, it should be internal, right. But that's just the truth. That's just how it was.
Laura: I think that that's like, like, uh, like, that's something we commonly understand, is that we shouldn't seek external validation.
And, and I think it's absolutely correct that, like, not all of our, like, self esteem should come from external validation because that's a huge problem. And at the same time, like, we're social animals. Right, like, there is a part of this that, you know, and I think this is often missing from conversations about body image, embodiment, whatever it is, that, you know, that we are just trying to survive and like survival comes from being accepted.
So, and, and, you know, if we're, if we're getting that, you know, praise that we're being accepted, then we're going to keep moving in that direction. So like, it makes sense. And I think we need to kind of like, that's the bit that needs challenged almost.
So like, it makes total sense to me that you were like, oh yeah, this feels great. I feel accepted, right? Because that's what it is what it is. It's a feeling of acceptance.
Alex: It felt like, it felt like for the first time ever, like, okay, I've accepted my body, but does anyone else accept it? I don't know. And it was just, it just felt really magical.
Like it was just a really magical, like blissful period with my, with my body. With my body image that I've never really felt before. Like I've, I felt like I've got to a place where I've been neutral about my body image, but I had made peace with the fact that I was never going to, like, actively love my body, but that was okay.
I didn't need to, as long as it didn't impact my, my life, you know, I could live without worrying about how my body looks, like that was great. And then to be, to feel this, like this just love around my body was really, was really wonderful.
And having experienced that now I'm like, I'm determined to get that again. I want that again. I think it's going to take time and it's going to take work, but I want to feel like that about my body because it just felt really lovely.
Laura: Question. When you say that pregnancy was this real, like, like you had really positive body image in that time. I wonder…how much do you think or feel that that was to do with your physical appearance and your, and the sort of validation that you were getting, versus how much of that do you think was around, like, a more internal sense of, like, feeling around like this, the function functionality of your body, right? Like the appreciation of it growing a baby and, and doing some like this, you know, fucking wild thing when you think about it.
Alex: Totally. No, you're so right. That heavily featured as well. And that definitely can't be left out of the conversation because it was like mind blowing to me what my body was, was doing.
And it came after a long journey with my fertility. That wasn't a typical route to, route to getting pregnant by, even by IVF means it was…that's a like podcast in itself.
Laura: I'll link, I'll link to an article that you, you talk about your, your story. Um, yeah. And save you going through it all, but we'll link to it in the, in the show notes.
Alex: But I just, I thought that maybe that wasn't going to be on the cards for me. Pregnancy wasn't going to be on the cards for me and it was, it was, it was mind blowing to watch my body do this and for it to change in this way that I just, I just didn't think was going to happen. So that was, yeah, that was enormous as well.
I had this, this respect and like gratitude for my body, I guess that I've never really had before. Like, I mean, sorry to an extent that I haven't had before. Gratitude to an extent that I've never feeled before, I've never felt before, feeled! That I've never felt before. It was like, it was really cool.
It's a, it was just a really cool experience to like, to witness your own body and for it to know what to do without you telling it, which sounds really stupid, but like, I was like, I can't believe it just knows what to do….
Laura: No, but it is. It just does it. It's so wild. It's so wild
Alex: And then this little thing pops out and you're like, oh my God, how, did I really create that?
Laura: I made that! Yeah. I say that to Avery all the time. I'm like, I made that. Made that. It's like, I made you with my body and he's like, what? Wild.
Alex: So wild.
Laura: I'm curious to know because you are…so online, and you know, you're a public figure in a sense, and I imagine that that probably makes people feel that they are somewhat entitled to your body, like, over and above the way that people feel that they're entitled to women's bodies, generally.
But I'm wondering, you know, as your body changed, in this postpartum period, like, were your community accepting of that or did, you know, are they only accepting of your body size up to a certain point? You know, was there trolling, like, can you speak to that side of things a little?
Alex: Yeah, it's, it's tricky. And I suppose it's, it's extra tricky because my audience is very vulnerable with this topic and probably extra perceptive of body changes and maybe extra sensitive to things I, I say around, around body image and around weight. So I think people noticed initially, and I also, I have a ton of conversations in Instagram all the time.
Like I like to talk to people as much as I can, which has obviously become more difficult since having the baby, but I have like really honest conversations with people on Instagram, and they feel like they can be honest with me, which is great. And I got a lot of people saying afterwards like but you look -, I mean, I wasn't showing my body, but I think it was, it was clear from my face that I was a lot, lot thinner and people were saying, you know, I don't want to admit this, but like, I can tell that you've lost loads of weight.
And that makes me feel, you know, I, I, that just makes me feel triggered, I guess, but like, it's, it's great because I really do have like a super positive community that will always be, I mean, you know, there's a lot of, there, I guess there's a lot of people there and there will always be people who, who feel triggered and then they kind of react to it in a way that's not very nice for me to be on the receiving end of, you know, but on the whole, it's pretty nice really.
I do have to say that I am very lucky with, with the community. I think it's a bit of a bubble. I do think it's a bubble for sure and I am lucky with that. And I don't experience kind of pressure. I have not experienced any pressure at all to snap back or bounce back within my community online. Not at all.
And actually when I wrote the article for Grazia about my postpartum weight gain, I was flooded, absolutely flooded with people being like, oh my God, that was exactly the same for me. And I was so ashamed. I felt so much shame about it. And I've never spoken to anyone about it because of the shame. And it was…
Laura: It's such a common experience.
Alex: Yeah, and it's, and it's so nice for that conversation to be opened up and like, you know, I did a post about it as well and people were talking in the comments being like, oh my God, it's so nice to talk about this and to actually just open up about it and see that people have experienced the same.
So that was, that was really nice. The response was overwhelming.
Laura: I think there is, you're right. There's so much shame, especially on this background of like, well, you know, cause I think there is, you're right, there's almost like a grace period in the fourth trimester by like six months, people expect you to be kind of like back on it.
And this is why I think these like ‘nine months in, nine months out’ posts are so insidious because ostensibly they're meant to show the baby, like the transformation of the baby, right? Like, but what you actually see is the person who was pregnant, their transformation, right? Their before and after picture. That's all it is is a before and after picture, right?
And, you know, people who are fat don't get to post the ‘nine month in, nine month out’ pictures Right? Or at least they don't get the same, like, aww, because they don't have the, the same transition in their bump.
And so, yeah, I just think that they're really, like, they're just, they're kind of toxic because you virtually almost always see, like, a perfect, round, high bump on the before. And then you see a thin person in the after, like someone who's got their baby back. Got their baby back! Got their body back. And yes, you'll see a cute baby, but that's almost like, I think, am I reading too much into it?!
Alex: Yeah, I know. I, yeah, the, the, the focus is on the body for sure. I wonder if it like inherently it's not a bad thing. I mean, this is me thinking out loud. If inherently the, the nine month in, nine month out pictures aren't a bad thing.
It's just because we are so primed, so conditioned to focus on the body and the body transformation, that that's what, that's what then becomes insidious about it.
Laura: Yeah. I, I mean, I, I think so like, yeah, I'm sure that there are people that are posting it that just actually want to show you like, yeah, their baby nine months on. But I do think like, I guess the things that I think about is like, you know, if you're posting that and you don't get, like, praise or feedback about your body, how is that going to make you feel?
Or are you doing it because you want to get praise and feedback about your body? And also the other part that I mentioned already, which is like, who gets to post those pictures? And it's generally only thin people, right? Above a certain size, nobody wants to see your, your 9 month in 9 month out picture.
I mean, I do! If you want to share it.
Alex: Yeah, yeah. Because there isn't the contrast.
Laura: But that's what I mean, is like, if, yeah, if that was available to all bodies, sure, everyone, go ahead, post it. But just like in the same way, I don't want to see, like, I don't want my feed flooded with, like, workout selfies of people who are like, you know, athletes, I don't want to see, you know, those, those pictures either.
Like that's, it's not going to be helpful for me. I don't think.
Alex: Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, cause the comment section always will revolve around the body as well. And then for people who do live in larger bodies, Witnessing that, that, you know, that's going to be hard as well.
That's going to be difficult.
Laura: Yeah. That's, yeah, that's where I'm, that's where I'm coming at it from, but you kind of alluded to this before, having a sort of toolkit, a sort of like a set of coping mechanisms that has helped you through this transition.
I would love to hear what you find is most helpful for you and maybe if there are a couple of things that you think would be really worth remembering for people who are like trying to conceive or who are themselves pregnant and are soon going to be postpartum, like what are the things that you would invite them to hold on to?
Alex: I mean, firstly, like I feel like the older I get, the more I realise there are very few things I experienced that are unique to just me, even if I think they are, right.
So I’m not special! So, like gaining weight after postpartum, you know, gaining weight postpartum, I was like, oh my God, it's just me. Like there's something wrong with me. I'm defective. Like no one else did this. And then once I wrote that article and did that post, I was like, oh no, there are like millions of people who are experiencing the exact same thing.
So I think, knowing that, knowing like, there's nothing wrong with you. You're not defective in some way. You're not alone. Like most things that you experience around your body image, pregnancy and postpartum will be a common experience. Even if you think that they're shameful and then they're not, they're not.
And everything is okay. All of that is okay. Whatever you experience in any of its different forms or guises to do with your body. Like, that's okay. It's, it's, it's okay. So I think I would give, I think that's the first thing is I would say like, give yourself the grace and, and space to know that what you are experiencing and feeling is okay.
It's probably common and there's nothing wrong with it. And from there, I think, I do think gratitude is a great thing to practice both in general life and also with our bodies. I believe, I never remember the statistic on this, but I believe that it's scientifically proven that practicing gratitude increases our body satisfaction.
I am pretty sure. But actually just don't take my word on that. Take that with a pinch of salt, but I believe that that's, that's the case. Um, so practicing gratitude for your body, for what it's doing for you, for creating this, this life, this new life, this new little human, and just giving yourself all the time in the world to not worry about your body after giving birth.
To just letting yourself be, letting yourself cope with this completely new life and just allowing yourself to experience that however that might be for you without the pressure of trying to get your body to look like it did before. Allow yourself to put any snapbacks or bounce back expectations to one side.
You just don't need that. It's unnecessary and it's going to cause you extra stress, probably extra, you know, harm to your mental health and it's just, and, and possibly physical health as well, and it's just, it's just not, it's just not necessary and it's not what you need.
Laura: Wear the maternity jeans as long as you need to.
Alex: I'm still wearing my maternity leggings. They are so comfy. They're perfect.
Laura: They're so great. I mean, I feel like I only just got rid of mine, like, recently.
Alex, this has been such a fantastic conversation. I feel like we could keep talking for hours, but I know you have a baby to get back to. So let's do our snacks. At the end of every episode, my guest and I share something that they've been really loving, really into, and I'd love to know what your recommendation is for the audience.
Alex: Okay, this is rogue, this is rogue, but bear with me. I am reclaiming corncakes. As in, you know,
Laura: [Dramatic gasp] Like rice cakes, but corn cakes?
Alex: Okay. So they always used to be my diet food. And so then forever, they were just remind me of diet food. And so I never touched them. And then, I saw a pack the other day and I was like, God, I just really did like the taste of them. Let me just try them.
I absolutely love them. And now they're my favourite snack, favourite snack in the world with butter on top. They've got to have butter on top. I can't have them raw. I can't go in raw with them. They've got to be, they've got to have butter on top, but I absolutely, and they've got to be salted.
Love them. Beautiful. And I'm reclaiming my diet.
Laura: No cheese? Or anything.
Alex: I mean, I could have cheese on it, but I love, I love butter on it. I just think that's like the, just the perfect combination for me.
Laura: Okay. I'm going, I'm going to remain corn/rice cake skeptical. It's so funny. Whenever I like post anything, like, um, I posted this list of like nutrition scams and like, one of them was like rice cakes and people fucking came for me.
People got so upset that I was like, calling out rice cakes, or, like, putting rice cakes in the same, like, list as Tim Spector, you know?
Alex: Well, yeah. I mean, is that because of the nutrition of them, or?
Laura: It's just because, okay, I just think that they're pointless.
Alex: Yes. I mean, I don't like rice cakes, but corn cakes taste good to me.
Laura: Well, you know what, and I, I know that people like rice cakes and I know that like, particularly people who are coeliac and need to have an option that isn't, that doesn't have gluten in it. But can I tell you my cracker of choice?
Alex: Yes. Please.
Laura: Okay. So, well, I guess crackers, loosely, M&S have these like little, they're called pretzel thins. Don't let the name thins, like, put you off.
Alex: Yes, I know what you mean.
Laura: And then they have, so they're like almost like flat pretzels and they've got like black and white sesame seeds on them. And salt. Great for, like, dipping in hummus or whatever, like, dip you have. They're just a, they're just a great snack option. That's my, that's my vibe.
Alex: Yes. My sister loves those, but I don't like the taste of, I don't like them and I don't like the pretzel taste. Sorry.
Laura: Wow.
Alex: Sorry. Sorry to shit all over your favourite snack.
Laura: No help for you. I wouldn't say they're my favourite snack. I'm just saying they're up there. Yeah. It's like a…but I think if I, like, if I wanted like a, like a, a bready thing, I'd probably go for like a toasted bagel.
Alex: Yeah. Oh, I love a bagel. I love a bagel. Yeah. I love a bagel. I love them when they're like dense and chewy. Oh, stunning.
Laura: Yeah. Like an everything bagel with all the different seeds and stuff on the top.
It always comes back to snacks on this podcast. But that wasn't the thing, that wasn't the thing that I was going to share. So mine is actually, a little preview of next week's post, which is going to be a roundup of amazing books that I've found that are food positive and are like, that showcase diverse bodies, particularly fat bodies.
And this book I particularly love because it has both. So it's called Dim Sum Palace by X. Fang, it's published by Pushkin Children's Press, and it is just the sweetest, most delightful story of a little girl, Liddy, who falls asleep and has this dream of going to a dim sum palace which is obviously like a kind of like a strip mall, like, Chinese restaurant that they go to in real life but she has this dream where she meets like an empress in, and in like this, this, you know her imagination of what a dim sum palace is going to be like but she accidentally gets folded into the the the dim sum, like, mixture and then it's kind of weird, it's a bit trippy.
But, Avery loves it, I love it, and I love that there's just this, like, unapologetic, like, fill your boots with as much dim sum as you want, like, you know, like, eat until your heart's content kind of vibe. And also the pictures of all of the people are, like, kind of, like, doughy and soft. Soft and she has a belly and like, there are so few children's books that, where you see the child with, like, chubby cheeks and a round belly and just like, look how cute.
Alex: Oh, so cute. She's just adorable. I'm buying this. I'm buying this. This is absolutely gorgeous.
Laura: And I think just in terms of like fat representation for children, like, even if your child isn't fat, like, this is just such a positive depiction. Yeah. Get the book. So it's going to be in my roundup next week with some other great books. So I'll, you'll see that next week when it comes out, but I will link to it in the show notes.
Alex: And as soon as Tommy becomes more cognisant, I'm going to read it to him.
Laura: He’s got a little, a little development to do yet!
I also have, I also have some baby books linked somewhere. We'll share all the links to all of the book roundups that I've done in the past.
Alex, this was amazing. Thank you so much. Can you let everybody know where you can find out more about you and your work?
Alex: Yes. So I am on Instagram @alexlight_ldn. And yeah, my book is still available to buy if anyone wants to. And yeah, thank you so much for having me on. This has been such a cool conversation.
Laura: Say the name of your book again! You can say it.
Alex: You Are Not A Before Picture. I'm not very good at plugging! Thank you.
Laura: No, you should plug, plug away and we will link to that in the show notes. So people can find you and yeah, check out the book. Thanks Alex!
Alex: Thank you so much. Thanks for this conversation.
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